Contact Tracing using Apple/Google solution
There is a risk with the UK Government's 'centralised' solution, that the only people that will download the app are UK citizens.
Scotland should look to use the decentralised model offered by Apple/Google, in keeping with the majority of global thinking on this topic, to maximise the possible reach of such a solution.
Scotland should look to use the decentralised model offered by Apple/Google, in keeping with the majority of global thinking on this topic, to maximise the possible reach of such a solution.
Why the contribution is important
This will be of specific importance to travel sectors...since the UK app will most likely only be downloaded by UK citizens, and thus the reach of the notification system will only cover that specific group.
By opting for the model that's becoming more widely accepted around the globe, it will allow for international visitors who are also contributing to the decentralised system to provide/receive alerts based on COVID contact.
It should make things a lot easier when it comes to encouraging international visitors to return to Scotland.
By opting for the model that's becoming more widely accepted around the globe, it will allow for international visitors who are also contributing to the decentralised system to provide/receive alerts based on COVID contact.
It should make things a lot easier when it comes to encouraging international visitors to return to Scotland.
by pilki42 on May 06, 2020 at 11:28AM
Posted by jriddell May 06, 2020 at 11:39
It would be better to share the source code with apps from other EU countries which use best practice security and privacy.
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Posted by DaveC May 06, 2020 at 11:41
There’s no need for U.K. government to reinvent wheel. Also perceived U.K. government security issues
More useful too for those who continue to come our shores unhindered as may be already doing so.
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Posted by Jules101 May 06, 2020 at 11:43
Noone seems to answer this!
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Posted by Winnieand May 06, 2020 at 11:45
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Posted by pilki42 May 06, 2020 at 11:46
I must admit, I'm a bit concerned about the centralised model that NHS England is pursuing and their choice is actually putting me off from downloading the app if it becomes recommended for Scotland.
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Posted by markymalarky May 06, 2020 at 11:47
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Posted by pilki42 May 06, 2020 at 11:48
"On this point, the TCN Coalition and the Apple/Google joint project argue that Bluetooth signal strength nonetheless serves as a proxy for sharing airspace with someone. Apple and Google plan to use Received Signal Strength Indication as a metric for determining if phones are in proximity, calibrated to account for the Bluetooth radios and ranges of different phones. Both distance and obstacles like walls diminish RSSI, meaning someone in the neighboring apartment would likely appear equivalent to someone well outside of Covid-19 transmission range. Google and Apple say they're also considering blending in other factors as well, like using proximity sensors to determine if a phone is inside a bag or a pocket, which might diminish RSSI but not Covid-19 transmission."
Source: https://www.wired.com/[…]/
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Posted by Lornab May 06, 2020 at 11:52
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Posted by xraypat May 06, 2020 at 11:52
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Posted by Flem1xyz May 06, 2020 at 11:58
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Posted by Iar1968 May 06, 2020 at 12:02
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Posted by RosG May 06, 2020 at 12:03
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Posted by AM22 May 06, 2020 at 12:18
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Posted by BeeCurry May 06, 2020 at 12:42
My personal phone does not have up to date upgrades ( its to old) it never will.
Until we have a tried and tested method of testing every one not just those with symptoms or suspected symptoms, but proper antigen tests that can state you have had it then we will never know how this is contained or spreading.
If everyone initially got sent a home test to complete this would at least give us a base to start.
Houses don't move everyone can be accounted for.
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Posted by LanarkshireResident May 06, 2020 at 12:47
Either other systems would be fine but the added value is probably worth it. We can delete the app later.
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Posted by Gordy May 06, 2020 at 13:13
The Cummings/Cambridge Analytica/Vote leave app is simply not to be trusted.
We should be using best practice and using the Google Apple apps and the one that our EU friends use.
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Posted by zuzan May 06, 2020 at 13:50
Also think that any app we do use should work with other decentralised apps from other countries .. international compatibility is going to be key for industries like tourism.
It's really important for public trust to use a decentralised app for this .. this is an excellent model of a decentralised app that ensures privacy and any possible nuisance reporting is blocked (nb where someone self reports to cause inconvenience to others they have had contact with.)
This is a model for how it could work
https://ncase.me/contact-tracing/
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Posted by nigelpentland May 06, 2020 at 15:13
I also noted the comments saying we can just delete the app later. Well, maybe you can delete the app, but there doesn't appear to be any provision to delete users data, both on other phones and also held centrally by NHSX.
If Scotland were to adopt the NHSX app, does this mean they will be interafcing / exposing the Scottish CHI numbers to a potentially illegal system under GDPR? Would no doubt be fascinating to see what legal advice you receive on this issue and whether the Scottish Government would have to shoulder any responsibility for so doing.
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Posted by Scotelka May 06, 2020 at 18:51
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Posted by alloha May 07, 2020 at 09:53
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Posted by Simpsojf May 07, 2020 at 16:05
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Posted by Gesabrek May 08, 2020 at 07:20
I really don't see the problem apart from people jumping on political band wagons rather than trying to support measures which MAY HELP IN SOME SMALL WAY SAVE LIVES!
Do you really trust the American companies more than the UK?
Do you think this data is stored on your phone or held centrally?
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Posted by RowPrice May 08, 2020 at 13:30
I have grave concerns that Public Health England/UK Govt are developing this app. We need to learn the lessons of the data leakage - when they developed the NHS England personal online systems.
By going a different route to other EU countries such as Ireland, Germany and other countries such as New Zealand, South Korea etc the UK Govt got some things badly wrong and the risks were too great - herd immunity.
Why not learn the recent lessons and don't try to reinvent a different system - go with the Apple and Google version as used in other countries and more people will download this - otherwise its too late if Scotland invest in the new created system developed by Public Health England /UK Govt and then its found to be faulty/leaky.
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Posted by GRS May 09, 2020 at 14:59
Apple and Google are developing a decentralised framework for worldwide COVID-19 contact tracing apps. Their framework is able to run seamlessly in the background on peoples phones while other apps run in the foreground or don't work properly when a phone is locked.
Unless the UK Government changes tack and amends their current App to use the joint Apple/Google framework then the App is going to have the same problems as Australia, Columbia and the Isle of Wight users are currently experiencing. Australia and Columbia are now going to reconfigure their Apps to use the Apple/Google protocol.
Unless these issues can be resolved it would be prudent for the Scottish Government to look closely at adopting the Apple/Google protocol for their App.
This article on the subject is worth reading: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52355028
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Posted by GordonFife May 11, 2020 at 13:38
The evidence so far suggests that where a country has adopted a centralised approach, the uptake has been lower, and a significant number of the people who initially sign up, subsequently uninstall the app.
The de-centralised approach gives the user more control over the privacy of what is, after all, sensitive personal data. This means that more people are inclined to install the app, and to use it, as has been demonstrated in those countries that have adopted a de-centralised approach.
It therefore makes far more sense to adopt a de-centralised approach, otherwise it is going to take longer, and require further lockdown periods in order to control the spread of the virus.
It makes no sense to spend time and money developing an app that, based on the evidence so far, will not deliver the desired results (i.e., the control of the spread of the virus) in a timely manner.
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